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Looking Beyond the Ivy League: Finding the College That's Right for You By Loren Pope ( Penguin (Non-Classics) )
Release Date: 2007-12-18
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List Price: $15.00
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Product Description
The celebrated book that revolutionized the way Americans choose colleges—now fully revised and updated
An invaluable guide with virtually no competition, this book helped to establish Loren Pope as one of the nation’s most respected experts on the college application process. Now fully revised and updated, Looking Beyond the Ivy League offers a step-by-step guide to selecting the right institution, a checklist of specific questions to ask when visiting a college, the secrets to creating good applications and good applicants, and much more. With as few as one-third of college students remaining at the institution they entered as freshmen, finding the right college is harder than ever before. This book makes it easier for students and their parents.
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Great guidance for becoming an informed consumer in the college selection process ( evaholtz )
Loren Pope's Looking Beyond the Ivy League debunks dozens of myths about college selection and admissions, arguing against common views informed by intuition and old wives tales and encouraging families to be open to a new perspective on what constitutes a good college.
According to Pope, the colleges with the most competitive admissions standards or biggest names aren't always the best. Reed and St. John's, for instance, feature engaging intellectual environments but have admissions rates multiple times higher than at many Ivies. Smaller schools across the U.S. cultivate closer professor-student interaction than is feasible at larger universities, helping students grow and often gain an edge in graduate school admissions. Many schools "in the middle" of the U.S. are undervalued because many students don't deign to examine the region's options.
Pope encourages extensive reflection. He suggests self-examination among students, with chapters dedicated to helping them consider what they want to get from a college and whether a gap year might be advisable. Pope also queries, "Do [families] do some probing consumer research? Do they ask for performance data? Do they sample and test the merchandise? No." Arguing against this sad trend, he advises students to critically "test the merchandise." He suggests reading up on statistics (commuter students, graduate study admissions rates, etc.), poring over the requirements, asking tough questions, visiting campus, attending classes, interviewing students, eating the food, checking out the facilities, and staying over. He justifies the time it takes by citing the high cost of attendance and high rate of transferring and dropping out.
Throughout the book, Pope supports his claims about what makes a good college by drawing on evidence from varies sources: statistics on graduate school admissions, profiles of people in "Who's Who," economic research documenting the change in employment criteria from degrees to capabilities, and so on.
After a thorough drilling on how to be an informed college consumer, Pope offers favorite college picks in categories such as "for the self-sufficient self-starter" and "for late bloomers or those who need help." He also offers additional insight on relevant topics such as financial aid and selecting a counselor.
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Gives another perspective on the college search
My son is in high school and is beginning to look at colleges. He is an above-average but not exceptional student -- takes challenging courses (AP, intensified, etc.) but has around a 3.3 GPA unweighted. I myself was mesmerized by "selective" colleges when I was a college shopper 25 years ago, especially if they had gorgeous, traditional campuses. The more steeped in tradition, the better! One main difference between my son and me, though, is that I was a super motivated student who was a good match for this type of college. My son is not motivated by the same types of things as I was, and although he wants to go to college, he is not motivated by prestige like I was, and he just wants to go somewhere where he can contribute and discuss ideas. Of course, he wants to work toward something that will help him get a job, but above all else, he wants to grow from the experience. He simply does not have the grades to get into the top tier private or state schools (in our state, UVA and W&M), and I'm not about to stress him out by pushing him to be someone he's not and aspire to those level of colleges. That would be setting him up for failure. For this type of student, who I believe is like the majority of students, I think Mr. Pope's book is a breath of fresh air. I would have given it a five-star rating but for his unfounded generalizations about top tier schools (more on that later).
I think what Mr. Pope is trying to show in his books (and they have recently been updated -- so those of you grumbling about the out-of-date information can cease to whine now...) is that there are plenty of options out there BESIDES the name brand, top tier schools that can inspire and educate the middle range of students very well and in some cases just as well as or better than the Ivies. Many of the middle range or "B" students are thoughtful, interesting people who WILL contribute to their colleges and to making an interesting student body. The smartest 5 - 10 per cent of high school students don't have a monopoly on being interesting and involved students, contrary to what many in our high-powered, competitive area (Wash D.C. suburbs) may think. I think Mr. Pope does an excellent job of explaining what small colleges have to offer and why they would be a superior choice for many students.
Where I believe he falls down a bit is in making blanket statements about some other (usually competitive and/or Ivies) colleges/universities that simply are unfounded. For example, at one point he says that Emory and Henry College in Virginia does a far superior job than William & Mary (W&M), UVA, and Washington-Lee at producing graduates who make a difference in their world. How can he make a comment like that unless he knows each an every person who graduates from those schools? W&M and UVA both have some of the highest Peace Corps participation rates among their graduates of any colleges/universities in the country. Greedy, grade-grubbing, self-serving people usually don't serve in the Peace Corps. Both colleges also have a large number of Truman, Rhodes, Fulbright and other special scholars; and their graduates are quite often civically involved in my community in large numbers. I think Mr. Pope's information about these small colleges is useful, and my son may very well choose one of these schools. But, please, Mr. Pope, your book will have much more credence and sway if you take a positive approach and not slander the "competitive" schools with hollow rhetoric you cannot back up with fact. Sure there are nerdy loosers who graduated from the Ivies and their "clones," but so there are from any college. Generalizations are always dangerous, because they are rarely true across the board.
You can continue in future editions to build up these lovely small colleges without cutting down the large state schools and/or the top tier ones. They are gems, as you say, but please don't belittle more well known schools in illustrating your point.
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Essential reading for college bound students and parents!
'Looking Beyond the...' by Loren Pope, should be essential reading for the college bound student and parent. I agree with Mr. Pope in that the college experience represents an important period of personal development; not to be taken lightly. And because it (college) represents such a significant time for parents and students, finding the right fit is essential. While it may not be the best college guide available, 'Looking Beyond the...,' is a great place to start looking for and investigating what may be the single most important choice of your child's life and future.
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 This book is nonsense.
Mr. Pope does not seem to like Ivy League colleges. But in the world of business, politics and finance; today and many years from now, people will continue to love Ivy League education. What is the purpose of college education? It is not just "true education" and personal growth etc. (which most Ivy Leagues do deliver). But beyond that, they allow your kids to build a worldwide network of influential people and leaders in many fields of human endeaveour. You get to meet and learn of leaders who are re-shaping today's world and thinkers who plan for tomorrow. I met and listened to more than one Nobel Laureates, and at least one influenced my thinking in economics/finance for the rest of my life (even though I am a computer science graduate).
Guess who started Amgen, Cisco, Sun Micro, Genentech, Yahoo, Google, and countless other non-tech and tech companies that revolutionized how we live and play? And Who funded them? Check their resumes, please. Although one can argue that no education is really needed to build a billion dollar business or change world politics, statistically speaking, Ivy League graduates have the most contributions towards such efforts. And this is a fact.
What do you want your child to become ten or twenty years from now? Your child's goals change with time. Interests change with time. But the Ivy League name stays on your child's resume forever. And the network your child will build at Harvard/Stanford/Princeton/Yale is well, pricelss!
You decide.
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Steer clear of this outdated guide ( djlevine2 )
Read the first paragraph in the book and then run. Pope's argument can be stated in a single sentence: small, liberal arts colleges throughout the U.S. can provide an excellent education. However, he ruins his credibility by using weak logic, meaningless examples, and very outdated personal research. It's like listening to your dad's retired guidance counselor thumping his fist on your desk, spitting, "The Ivy League stinks." Let's face it: the Ivies are great and small liberal arts schools can be great, too. It's all a matter of finding the right match, but Pope won't help you do that. Buy any other guide and you'll be better off.
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Addiction
